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World Autism Acceptance Day - Student Panel
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This podcast episode is the audio taken from our webinar, World Autism Acceptance Day - student panel.
During this podcast we heard from university students on the autism spectrum, where they answered a number of key questions, including:
What are some of the challenges students face in their studies?
What helps a student succeed in their studies?
What support or assistance does the student's university provide?
What advice would a student give to others on the autism spectrum who are considering studying at university?
The podcast is hosted by Debbie Hindle. Debbie has been coordinating the University of Tasmania's Specialist Peer Mentoring Program (Speerment) since it’s inception in 2017. She was also the Project Officer responsible for compiling the resource: How to Transition to Tertiary Education: Helpful Hints for People with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Debbie is appreciative that a key part of her knowledge in this area has been informed by nearly a decade of experience as a mentor to someone on the Autism Spectrum.
Related resources
ADCET Webinar: World Autism Acceptance Day - student panel https://www.adcet.edu.au/resource/10283/webinar-world-autism-acceptance-day-student-panel/
How to Transition to Tertiary Education: Helpful Hints for People with Autism Spectrum Disorder https://www.adcet.edu.au/students-with-disability/autism-transition/
Peer-to-Peer, Heart-to-Heart: Mentoring Students on the Autism Spectrum https://www.adcet.edu.au/disability-practitioner/disability-practice-in-the-spotlight/debbie-hindle/
Hi everyone. Welcome to the ADSET Podcast. Supporting you, supporting students. We'd like to acknowledge and pay respects to the traditional custodians of the lands on which this recording is taking place. Until the elders, past, present, and emerging. This podcast episode is the audio taken from our webinar, World Autism Acceptance Day Student Panel. Debbie Hindle facilitated the panel discussion. Debbie is the coordinator of the University of Tasmania's Specialist Peer Mentoring Program, Spearment, and was the project officer responsible for compiling the resource How to Transition to Tertiary Education. Helpful hints for people with autism spectrum. The panel of University and TAFE students included three students on the autism spectrum and a student who is a mentor for the Spearment program. During this podcast, the panel members discuss some of the challenges they face in their studies and what has helped them succeed. Make sure you check out our show notes to find the link to the webinar. Enjoy.
SPEAKER_02Thanks everyone for attending today. Just before I start, I also just want to really acknowledge that it is World Autism Acceptance Day, and I want to, you know, say that I recognise and celebrate the gifts, the strengths and the rights people with autism have, and especially to participate in tertiary education, and you know, be able to contribute in the many ways that they can contribute. And I also want to acknowledge that I have been enriched both personally and professionally since my work in this area. So I want to thank everyone that I've ever come across and acknowledge, especially I have mentored someone for the last eight or ten years, and it's been amazing. And thank you to our panellists today. It takes a bit of courage to put up your hand and say that you'll be part of a webinar. So I thank them for their courage and their generosity. We have Emma. Emma Giblin is a student studying the Bachelor of Biotechnology at the University of Newcastle. Emma has only recently become aware of her neurodiversity and has actually found empowerment through a better understanding of who she is and how to best support herself and achieve her goals on this path of self-discovery. And as such, Emma is excited to have a platform as her own advocate. And she believes a large component of self-advocacy is seeking help. She's excited to give insight to those who wish to facilitate their success and more broadly a culture of awareness, acceptance, and in her perspective, importantly, active promotion of advocacy. Thanks, Amra, and we look forward to hearing your responses to some of the questions and your engagement today. Hayden, thanks Hayden, for joining us. Hayden is a 32-year-old professional mentor with a diagnose of autism spectrum disorder. Therefore, Hayden's able to give us insight both as a person on the spectrum as well as a mentor. Hayden specialises in sensory-social needs for autistic students and employees and is the owner of Spectrumite. Spectrumite, I hope I pronounced that properly, Hayden. He has a professional background in community services, mental health and dual diagnosis, and is currently enrolled in a training and assessment course at TAFE, New South Wales. Thanks. In fact, she was offered her candidacy so soon after results come out, which recognises that Holly is not only a great student but has great potential in this area and will make a really good contribution. Penn, welcome Penn. Penn's a 30-year-old student who's attending UTAS part-time to complete a Bachelor of Psychological Science. This is Penn's second semester with Holly as their mentor. Penn was diagnosed with autism when they were 13 years of age, and they had chosen this area of study to learn more about the area. And as Darren said, Penn was also instrumental in giving some really valuable feedback to the how to transition to autism, how to transition to tertiary education, helpful hints for people on the autism spectrum. Thank you, Penn, for that and thank you for participating today. Okay, right, I'm going to start asking you, and I might ask you, Penn, can you tell us what your successes so far have been when you've been studying at university?
SPEAKER_03Well, for me, my main success um is the fact that I'm still at university. Um I have tried university once before, about a decade ago, and I was like I didn't know where I was like a person lost in the woods. Didn't know where I was going um and in the end just left and everything was a struggle. I was um I was writing essays in the in the hours before they were due and never up to date on readings or anything. So it was terrible.
SPEAKER_02It's a success that you've you're still here after one year and you're feeling a bit more comfortable and yes, because things are going well this time. Good. What are you most proud of what's gone well so far?
SPEAKER_03Um the fact that I have put in essays uh days before they were due. Um that is what I'm like, wow, this feels so much better.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic. And that success builds. Okay, we'll come back and we'll pick up some of those challenges that you found 10 years ago and that you're finding recently, but I'll move on to Hayden and ask what his successes in study have been so far. Thanks, Ben.
SPEAKER_06I honestly I think one of the greatest successes is overcoming the barriers in my way. Um I've found that most of my personal barriers in terms of of studying haven't gone down to my academic ability. It's come down to external factors such as communication barriers or areas um have dreads and drones, so I can I think uh sorry, honestly, it's yeah. Um again, overcoming barriers like that. Um moments moments where um the the brain just sort of has to reset.
SPEAKER_02Um can you think of any specific thing that you felt very successful at?
SPEAKER_06Oh absolutely um absolutely. Um I I was I was uh one or two marks shy of a of achieving my diploma distinction at distinction level. Um so it was okay. I think I'm good. Um come back to me.
SPEAKER_02Okay, and I'll come back and pick up some of those things you were talking of before about it's not sometimes the academic challenges but it's the social challenges, and we'll pick that up in the the next question, which will be about challenges. Emma, can you tell us something that you feel that you've been successful with with and proud of some of your studies? Sure.
SPEAKER_05So I've just entered into my second semester of studying biotechnology, and um I was really happy with my successes last semester. I had was enrolled in three courses and I got one HD and two almost HD, so just two distinctions. Um, it's been my first time living independently, like moving to Newcastle. Um and at the time I'd also contracted mono and was bedbound for a long period, so those marks really meant a lot for me in terms of my ability to achieve, and I think the same as um as um what we were just talking about, that I I don't have any um I have faith in my academic um ability, it's more so the um I guess a lot to do with social factors in my um inability or my struggle to um organize, but another success of mine would also be that um I'm able to organize to the extent where I'm able to uh um access other things I've always wanted to do at university, like um like the like social groups and being able to volunteer, so that's huge for me, and it's just been really socially enriching.
SPEAKER_02Fantastic, thanks Emma. Holly, from your perspective as a mentor, what are some of the successes you've observed the students you've been working with achieve?
SPEAKER_01During my time in the Spearman program, I have seen a whole range of successes from the students I've worked with. I have seen a student graduate after failing all their first year units. I've seen a student become so independent that they no longer need my support and are now involved in the planning and execution of university activities for other students. I have seen a student be able to speak up for what they want and need after spending years of having to accept what others thought was best for them. I've seen a student spend hours and hours on assignments and work so hard to receive a high distinction. These are some of the highlights of student success I've observed. There are so many more, small and large, I think I could spend the entire panel just talking about them. If I had to pick one that I have seen all students I've worked with, it would be building of confidence. All these students were able to build their confidence, um, something that I think is a great success and will help them for the remainder of their time at university and life beyond.
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Holly. Um, and it would be good to unpack that a little bit more too as we go along. So, a few of you have mentioned some of the challenges, and um, we know that for many students that coming to university or take an undertaking and degree or diploma or any type of tertiary studies, it's full of some challenges. Um that's part and parcel, and many of them are okay, but some of them become just too big or too overwhelming. We need to kind of get some help in overcoming them. So, what kind of challenges, um, perhaps, Penn, have you found in your time at university? And you can go back and talk about 20, you know, when you were, I assume 21, when you were at uni 10 years ago, um, and then some of the challenges you've found now.
SPEAKER_03Um, my main challenge is organisational. Um I have um, as Hayden mentioned, I um I don't find any of my struggle is with academia, um, it's all um other things. Um, and for me that is primarily organisational. How to um pace myself so that um everything gets done on a schedule regularly, um, how to plan for an assignment, an essay, um and uh yeah, just everything around that kind of thing, meeting um deadlines and doing it with um a little bit less of a sprint at the end.
SPEAKER_02So and and so one of those challenges was try to avoid just doing your assignments at the last minute like you did um last decade. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So it's that planning and organizing, so knowing what's due when, maybe how much time you need to spend to get it done on time, do you think?
SPEAKER_03And how to break it down is also a good one, um, because obviously an assignment and an like a 2,000-word essay, for instance, in it's like it can be where do I start? Um breaking that down into manageable pieces, um, breaking the question down, that type of thing is also quite a challenge.
SPEAKER_02So yeah. So can I ask you what is um what's helped you overcome some of these challenges?
SPEAKER_03Well, that would be um uh the the mentor program, really. Holly, um I don't think I could have said that my my first semester would have gone so well without her. So um kind but firm hand.
SPEAKER_02So can you give an example of um some of the things that Holly might have helped you with then?
SPEAKER_03Um well with my major assignments, um, we sat down and um we did look at the requirements. Um we broke it down, and because I'm psychology and she's psychology, um she was able to to give me an insight into what they were asking more into what um more of what we was required and what was a bit kind of just the fluff that I was putting in because you know um yeah, so it's that just that kind of thing there. And we we we the most important thing for me was also that we wrote it down because no matter what we said in the meeting, if it wasn't written down, I would forget it so quickly. So um writing it down and yeah, making it visible and concrete and yeah.
SPEAKER_02Excellent. So how often would you meet with Holly?
SPEAKER_03Uh once a week, but we did email back and forth a little bit in between.
SPEAKER_02Okay, good. Thanks, Penn. Emma, can you talk about some of the challenges that you faced? Um I probably split them into like three categories.
SPEAKER_05Um, I'd say first is um I might it might be a new concept to some people, but I would call it masking. The second would be sensory issues, and the last, um, which I think is a big one, is an inability to organize. Um, in terms of masking, I would describe it as like it's almost like acting or putting on a face to act seem normal or blend in, and this can be extremely tiring when going to university or being out and about and being social because I feel like um a lot of people, especially women on the spectrum, um, are trying to blend in, and it can be it can be exhausting. Um, the second, in terms of sensory issues, can be a massive one. I have to really be quite um thoughtful of how I'm going about in my environment. Stuff like even just being in the library and having really bright, like aggressive lighting or the buzzing of air conditioning. Um sometimes like, and I've just sort of overcome that with things like I just no matter what class, I mean, I'll just wear a hat or I'll wear sunglasses because I find it's so disruptive to my learning that I can't focus because it's yeah. Um and the last, as I mentioned, is um the difficulties in organizing, which um having Christy, who isn't popular at the moment, um, help me to break down those steps. Um really helped just in terms of having someone there for a bit of accountability.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And um for our audience's sake, um, Christy is your mentor, a bit like Holly is a mentor of the Penn. Yep, so that equivalent. So Christy also helped you with that organizational skills, breaking down things, giving you feedback. Um, the sensory issues, I could imagine that could make it quite difficult getting around campus and the places that you need to be.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like it can even be like I've I don't take for granted those really small things, even just being able to pick the right clothing, things like tags on my clothing is quite annoying. Um, even in terms of humidity, like I said, even the colour temperature and lights can be quite overwhelming. Um, but like I said, just the small things I don't take for granted, like making sure to wear comfortable um shoes, um, to make sure I I bring um like sometimes I even bring my own hand soap because the hand soaps at the university don't agree with me. Um, I'll just wear a hat everywhere and have my sunglasses on, and even terms of like um like auditory like overstimulation, I tend to go everywhere with headphones on just to sort of bring it down a notch.
SPEAKER_02Okay, thanks for that. Hayden, what were some of the challenges that you faced?
SPEAKER_06Um honestly, much of the above, but one of the things one of the things I've actually designed as a mentor is literally a course which is modular in nature to help students overcome the sensory social issues and develop their own, essentially their own coping program to meet their own individual needs. Because there's not really anyone out there teaching autistic students how to effectively understand their own sensory profile and then develop a methodology to to mitigate the risk. Um it's it's a it's an overused phrase. You've met you've met one person with autism, then you've met one person with autism. And yet the standard modality, in terms of how a lot of professionals that aren't autism specifically trained, tend to work with autistic people in exactly the same way every time, not understanding that their sensory social needs are just as unique as they are. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So can you give us some examples of some of those sensory social needs that maybe you've experienced or some of the students you're working with?
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. Um, it's often the biggest obstacle I find in terms of it's been my barrier, but it's also been the barrier of my mentees. Um it's my experience. I mean, it I think a really important thing to understand in terms of a chat of a study challenge is that autism rarely occurs in isolation. There's a tremendous amount of kind of of often comorbid conditions that go along with that, which need to be recognized and addressed. Um I mean, I'm I'm pretty unique in that I also have Tourette's and a bunch of other neurological stuff going on that impair my ability. But it's more I didn't have a mentor. I had to figure out pretty much all of this, all of the coping strategies, all of the various methods to deal with the sensory social cycle. It's um you have a sensory overload, you try and talk to somebody, you have a social failure because you're so overloaded that you can't process their body language, their facial expressions. You kick yourself in the rear because hey, I screwed up, I said the wrong thing that was misinterpreted. God, I'm an idiot. What's wrong with me? And it's a cycle that results in other rising yourself even further. And like, um, sorry, who who brought up masking? Emma talked about masking. I literally had to write a whole part, a whole podcast just dedicated to masking because having to keep up that front, whether it's trying to not spim in a way which appears weird, or how to maintain your voice tone when you are completely exhausted and it's like, well, I'm Hayden, and obviously I I'm I'm a very empathetic person, and I really care about what you're saying, but the noise, the lights, everything is just too much. And like it doesn't sound like you care at all. It's like that's because I can't consciously modify my voice, and I don't just suit an artypical person. It's it's it's a barrier in I would almost say a barrier, a barrier in dialectic the the two sides can't figure out where to meet in the middle. And it's I'm not an organized person either. I have no concept of time, dates, word counts. If you want an essay, great. If you want something in 200 words, my my mind explodes as to how I'm possibly going to condense that down. So also, I have zero concept of spatial awareness. I can go somewhere a hundred times and still not know how to get back there. And yet I've got a couple of autistic clients that they go somewhere once and they will remember it 20 years after the fact. They are just insanely able to orient every single object in their environment.
SPEAKER_02So it's very different, isn't it? And and you know, you're making some really great points and to pick up on Emmas and Pens too. But you know, when you try, when you're feeling well, your energy is taken from masking, from a sensory over the life, from navigating an environment that is very noisy, very complex, um, and there's a great quote, um, pretty unpredictable and full of you know people that um don't, you know, often contradict themselves or processes that contradict themselves, it makes it difficult then to be a successful student and uh when your energy is going to navigating those things, those non-academic things. Holly, I'm wondering if you might add something now as your in your experience as a mentor, as to some of the challenges that you've seen, some of the strategies that have been useful in overcoming those challenges.
SPEAKER_01Uh so speaking to the challenges that I've seen, um there are a lot of things inherent in the way that universities run and organise assessment tasks that don't make logical sense. Across the years I've been involved in the spearmint program, trying to justify the illogical things to students on the spectrum is challenging. However, I have observed that for the students on the spectrum, that when something doesn't make logical sense, this is even more challenging. For instance, I had the pleasure of working with a student at the start of last year that, due to other medical conditions, was unable to write by hand for long periods of time. So, as part of their learning access plan, they were granted the right to complete their work on a computer. However, they were still given all their assignments as hard copies. They were required to manually enter the already typed up and printed assignment into the computer, something that would take them hours. However, the academics in charge of this unit wouldn't allow the delivery of the assignment via a computer document for fear of students changing the questions to assist them to get the correct answers. So the student who was already granted the right to complete the coursework on the computer wasn't allowed to receive their assignment questions in a way that would make sense. This is only one example of the challenges I have seen with students face due to apparent inflexibility from university staff. I think that in broad terms, the biggest challenge for students on the spectrum is that when the university system is so set in its ways that it becomes inflexible to the point of being illogical. I think sometimes staff are unwilling to change for fear of getting special treatment to these students when in reality they would just merely be making it an even playing field.
SPEAKER_02Thanks. And some tips about what you think has been helpful to help overcome some of these challenges and obstacles.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I've seen students be able to make really good allies out of their lecturers and tutors. There has been that has been the greatest help for these students, in my opinion. I've seen relationships like these give students the confidence to ask for help, clarification, special consideration without embarrassment, and even just engage with the course and on-campus activities. In my opinion, the most helpful practical changes, such as special consideration for in-class presentations or group work, has stemmed from a good relationship that these students have been able to form with their teachers.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. And in fact, I know we did some work in our program last year and we looked at what does resilience look like in Spearment, our specialist peer mentoring programme. And one of the things that came out of the stories, one of the key themes came that came out was asking for help. So when we have the ability to ask for help and the confidence to ask for help and the know-how to ask for help, it adds to our resilience. Thanks, Holly. Penn, I'm going to go back to you now and going to ask you what advice would you give to others on the autism spectrum who are considering studying, say at university?
SPEAKER_03Okay, I'd probably suggest talking to someone who's been to uni um about the workload that's involved, the um the nuances, um the support that's available, um, where you'd go for help, what yeah, what the um expectations are, that type of thing. Um but to also make sure they have a good support network. Like not just at uni, but also at home in their social life, um, whether it's friends, family, um, just to kind of help them all the way around. Um I'd say is probably the best thing for me to really.
SPEAKER_02That's been important for you. In in what way? Can you add anything else there?
SPEAKER_03Um well sometimes you just need a hug from someone if you had a bad day. Or to debrief if you're um if you're um kind of to rage against the uni machine. Um, or if uh as Hayden mentioned, a lot of people do have comorbidities. I have um obsessive compulsive disorder and anxiety and blah blah blah. Um and uh I need help managing those as well. Um so I kind of need people around me that understand me very well and can kind of reflect back at me if I'm having a bad day and be like, hey, remember it's not always like this, maybe it is probably just your OCD or something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or you know, it's just your autism, you're a bit overstimulated, you know, have a break and um because as great as Holly is, um you know, she she is my mentor, she's not like in my uh close, intimate ring of um confidence, family, friends, and stuff, you know. Yeah, so they can't run to her and say, honey, I think that would be breaking a few rules.
SPEAKER_02Um especially at the moment, Pen. Especially at the moment. So um have it yeah, so having that really great support network around you that know you, that sounds like they can kind of grasp give you some perspective. Hey, you know, it's not always like this. This is your ICD or your autism, um speaking, um, and just helping you feel okay about you. That's the message I'm getting there.
SPEAKER_07So yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_02And that would be part of your advice to to students thinking of enrolling. So I think what you can get within uni or within TAFE, but also build the help around you outside of that.
SPEAKER_03Yes, and just one more thing I thought of is that they can also help interpret things, social things and uh uni things like that you might be unsure about. They can um if it's rules or or something someone said, they can kind of be that kind of guide for you too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, thank you. Your doctor who posted there, I like that behind there.
unknownThank you.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. But also talk to someone who's been to uni, that's your big advice, too. Find out as much as you can about those little expectations, the nuances, the rules. Um, yes, thank you. Emma, what have you found? Oh no, sorry, what would your advice be for anyone thinking of coming to university, given that university is your experience too?
SPEAKER_04Um, I would say sorry, sorry, Emma, it's Darlene here. We're just getting a little bit of trouble with your sound. I know you I've noticed you haven't got a mic, but is it a chance of moving your head away from your computer a little bit? Just try testing, testing. Try again.
SPEAKER_05One, two, three, how's that? No, I'd be happy to try without because my microphone's actually in my headset.
SPEAKER_04Okay. So I just give that a try. Yep, I'll try it. Um, how's this? Yep, that's a lot better, I think. Yep, we can. Oh, she can't hear us though. Oh, I can hear you now.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_04Oh, good, brilliant. That's a lot better. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02And good to know that you're still here with us, darling.
SPEAKER_05Um, I would say um knowing yourself as your strongest advocate. Um, and I think a big part of that, and for strong self-advocacy, would be seeking help. Um, that that is a key element of self-advocacy. Um, on that vein, I think knowing who you are is like essential to being able to follow a path into university. Um, I know for myself I find that I can be a very um black and white think, like I have very black and white thinking. So having um, especially in terms of my mentor, to help me um realize ironically that um things aren't so black and white, they are a spectrum of a spectrum of a spectrum.
SPEAKER_02When um the advice you're giving is to get to know yourself. Are there any things that you found very helpful in doing that that you could suggest other people who are not enrolled?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um I actually found um a lot of um comfort in five in finding like my um like-minded people on Facebook groups, so people to um, especially adults on the spectrum, to give tips about um like just general life tips. And also I would suggest I read two amazing books, um, one called A Practical Guide to Happiness and Adults on the Autism Spectrum, a positive psychology approach by Victoria Honeyborne, and it was just reframing um the narrative for myself being on the spectrum was life-changing as opposed to focusing so heavily on um I guess the traditional societal perspective of all focusing on minimizing the negative, like negative qualities of autism, just focusing on my strengths. So, especially looking into being able to express myself creatively.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. That's um as a positive psychology practitioner, I'd be really keen to know that. Um, for you do send us that title, and perhaps we could put it in without resources because I think a few other people might be interested in that too. That sounds good. So, knowing your strengths, knowing what you're good at, and I assume if it's a positive psychology perspective, it's knowing your character strengths. What kind of things are really important to you, what you value, and then looking about how you can use those through your studies. Yeah, and that self-advocacy, it's interesting that asking for help seems to be something that's very strong to you too, that it helps you speak up for yourself. Um and how you know what we're finding, it's actually quite a it's a strength, not a weakness to ask for help. Are you finding that too?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, absolutely. I used to think um, I used to have a mindset where I felt if I wanted to succeed, I had to do it alone. But I feel like humans are just such uh we're just so communal, it doesn't make sense to be an island. Um to be, I don't know, um your best self, you have to exist with others.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And there's some great research around that too, again in um the positive psych thing, saying that you know we succeed best when we succeed with others, help others succeed and and um ask for help when we need it. Um so thank you for that. Um, Hayden, anything, any advice that you would have, and I know your experiences in TAFE. So for people wanting to enroll in TAFE, what would you tell them, or what are you telling the young people that you're coming across with and working with about going to TAFE?
SPEAKER_06Honestly, that it is the circumstances of the environment that's really, really important. Often these guys have either just come out of secondary, um, out of out of secondary school or they've had a sustained period of unemployment and they're looking they're looking to reskill or upskill. But especially if they've had a gap in in study that or they've as I said, if they've just come out of secondary school, but the environment and the expectation is going to be completely different to what they currently understand. Um as you would know, tertiary education is is often self-directed learning. It's like the teachers want you to pass, but if you put in zero effort, it's you will only be prompted to a certain point. You you've you've got to have the passion and self-directive to study, improve, and applicate and applicate the skills, the skills that you're learning. Also, the the dynamics of the social environment is completely different to high school. I mean, sure, in in in TAFE, and as as in university, there are there are cliques, but the it's a completely different social environment. And preparing preparing um mentees and and students for that change is an integral part of success.
SPEAKER_02Um so it seems the first part of that is really being clear about what the differences are, what to expect.
SPEAKER_06It's it's it's also as as has been iterated by everyone else here, it's getting them to speak up and advocate for themselves where they can. It's it's there are barriers. It's not just barriers in communication, it could be it could be barriers in in a in a in a learning style. It could be barriers to retention of certain kinds of information. Um I remember nearly everything I read. If you want me to remember a date, a time, or a number, I will not be able to retain that information unless I write it down. So it's the more they understand their own learning needs and have a look at what they actually struggle with, it can address so many barriers which may not affect their academic ability. But as as you would know, um sorry, who's our who's our resident psych um doing the PhD? Is that is that Holly? This is Holly. Yes, we've got Holly here. Yeah, well, you might be able to explain every element of Jungian psychology and yet not have the mathematical ability to pass the physics. It's it's sometimes there there are, especially when you're when you're dealing with students that are twice exceptional, that they've got extreme abilities in given areas and yet glaring weaknesses, and others, it's a question of how do we prop that learner up? How do we train that skill that they don't think they can learn? Because no one on earth thus far has been able to teach it in a way that they can retain. Or yeah, so sometimes it's it's understanding.
SPEAKER_02So sorry, Hayden, I'm just aware of time now, so I'll leave it at that. But I think you've made some really good points about understanding the new learning environment really well and understanding yourself. So understanding how you learn well and what challenges you have with learning and and then being able to communicate them and asking for help too. Um and uh and I'm thinking back to the plug that Darlene gave in the beginning about how to transition to tertiary education, helpful hints for people on the autism spectrum. There's some chapters in that that can really help there. So if you haven't checked out that book and you're working with people considering going to Uni or TAFE, it's a good resource if I say so myself. Holly, do you want to um just kind of give us a quick um insight into what you what advice you would give to people thinking of um coming to TAFE? And also just a little bit about how um you think you've benefited from your involvement in the mentoring program as a mentor.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so anyone thinking about coming in, I would definitely sort of I feel like I'm just stealing everyone's Thunder now. I definitely say like if there's support available, ask. Um that would be my number one thing, and not never shying away from saying if something's not working for you. Always try and speak up, or if you know that you need something, um speak up and say it because um you're you have such a special gift in your mind and it's the people that don't accept that it's their fault and it's their problem, it's not yours. So just speak up and say, I need this, and usually I have very rarely encountered anyone that won't accommodate that because they know they'd be missing out if they don't. Um and what I've benefited from the program um is that from working with four different students, I've recognized that they all had very different needs. I think the biggest benefit I have learnt from being involved in the mentoring program is not to hold any expectation or preconceived ideas. The program has taught me to be open to new suggestions and challenges and to most importantly be adaptable. Students on the spectrum are not made from a cookie cutter where they all have the same characteristics, thus, there is no one way of supporting these students. Buman has taught me that the best way to support these students is to listen and to find a way to support that individual, not to try and force some general idea of what I think autism support is.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, Holly. Now I'm going to ask each of you really briefly because we are running out of time. Um that's why I always run out of time, I think.
SPEAKER_04Sorry, Deb, just before you do that, just a reminder that people, if they want to have any questions asked at the end, just to put into the question and answer pod. We only had one question at the moment, so we're not not going to be able to do that. Oh, we're not much out of time. No, so it's fine.
SPEAKER_02But we've got a few pre-questions, so that's good, that's much better. Um, okay, I'll I'm going to ask each of you to um tell us what advice you would give to university staff or TAFE staff. Um, and that could be the academics, the teachers, the support staff, or you know, even just someone at the desk when you walk in to the library or the information area. What advice would you give those staff for supporting students on the autism spectrum? This time, Emma, I'm going to talk, I'm going to ask you to start. Yeah, sure.
SPEAKER_05Um, I would say to have the things you don't understand, um, come with an open mind and an open heart to things that are different in having this empathy, even for the small everyday things, you could be facilitating um richness to someone's life, and in turn, you might be given insight from a new perspective. Um, the constraints of like resources and time take a toll on people, and understand it's difficult to foster this kindness, but I think that kindness breeds more kindness. The um I feel like it's the responsibility of others to educate themselves and to not leave it um on people with disabilities because it can be quite tiring and dehumanizing to keep um constantly having to justify ourselves. Um, so on that note, I think that um acceptance is a great word because I believe it's an action, and that I think um we have to take the initiative to take this action.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well done, thank you. And that is a nice kind of um fitting thing to say in world acceptance, world autism acceptance day. Rather than awareness. So awareness is a first step sometimes, but then acceptance. We need to go on to that acceptance. Yeah. I'd even add appreciation then. An extra A. We make it the triple A. Thanks. I think you agree with me. Thanks, Emma. Um 10. What advice would you give to university staff?
SPEAKER_03Um, yeah, I agree. Uh patience and kindness. Um bear in mind that the person might not have the communication skills to easily get across what they're needing to communicate, whether it's a a question or a concern, and also to bear in mind that um the the uh sensory uh issues, um the sensory inputs going into that person at the moment and the anxiety, etc., um, would also be having a very big toll on them. Um so uh yeah, just be patient and kind.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, cool. Thank you. That patience and kindness goes a long way. And as um Emma says, the more you give it, the more you seem to have it self-generating, isn't it? Um and and then understanding that the sensory overload can actually impact too. So I I don't know, would you advise some places to kind of maybe um lower the light sometimes or have quieter places where you can go and ask? I'm not sure where you're studying, but I know where I work, where I'm based. Um, the library is also a student support centre, and it's very noisy, very busy. Um, and I think sometimes we just need a quiet place for some students to go and ask questions.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've seen some um businesses are um are really putting uh like this is aside from uni, you're really putting um effort into quiet spaces, and um I really applaud them for it, and I'd like to see more in the uni um environment.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so maybe take some of those things that are happening outside the uni environment and bring it inside. Yeah. Thanks, Penn. Hayden, what advice would you give to TAFE um staff?
SPEAKER_06TAFE, TAFE staff, I I think it's doubly important to be mindful of the sensory concerns because TAFE teaches many, many practical subjects. There's a lot of power tools, a lot of noise, a lot of fluorescent lights. Pretty much every potential sensory trigger that a student could possibly be set off by is on a TAFE campus. So as much as the environment is less controllable than a lot of unicampuses, I find it's it's you aren't going to be able to eliminate the noise. So often it's supporting the student in terms of okay, we can't turn the noise off. We can't always lower the night, we can't always lower the lights. But we can make sure, we might be able to make sure that you've got a set of noise-cancelling headphones on you at all times, that you've got polarized sunglasses to help you cope with um the fluorescent lights, that you've got appropriate sensory management gear on you to be able to better cope with your environment, and that you know the nearest, quietest location that's relevant to where you'll be studying. So it's equipping, it is trying to make the student halfway, but it's also helping the student realize there are tools at their disposal to mitigate the set the sensory social impact. Because without that learning, it's the student has this sense of powerlessness. It's I'm masking 24-7 and I can't take the mask off. So meltdowns, burnouts, aggression, behavior you wouldn't normally see if there were appropriate resources in place for the student to be able to self-regulate and manage. I even that's a good point too.
SPEAKER_02That behaviour or the meltdowns that come at their best, it's often a product of you know that tiredness and the and because the energy that's put on masking or dealing with sensory overload. So that kind of understanding again and giving that generous assumption that sometimes these things are a product of the environment. And also I like your point about meeting halfway. So it's both both can meet halfway and make some changes. Um thanks, Hayden. I'm gonna ask Holly now. Yep, thanks. Holly, what advice would you give to university staff about supporting students on the spectrum?
SPEAKER_01Okay, so if there's only one thing that you remember from what I contribute to this conversation today, I hope it is this. My advice to you is just be prepared to listen. Be flexible, don't try and force what you think is best on the student. Let the student tell you what they need. Really listen to what the students are saying. They already know what they are struggling with. So let them tell you and be prepared to be flexible in your delivery of services. Don't assume that you know what's best. Don't assume that you already know how to help them, because I can almost guarantee you don't until you listen to them.
SPEAKER_02Thanks. That's fantastic. And so simple but so true, sometimes harder than it is to say, but it's something we need to keep reminding ourselves. Thank you so much, everyone.
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